Unlock the Power of Music for Brain Health and Emotional Wellbeing

In this episode of The Adaptive Mind, I talk with Andy Tubman, a board-certified music therapist and co-founder of SingFit. Andy reveals how singing activates multiple regions of the brain simultaneously while boosting key neurochemicals that affect our mood and wellbeing.

After listening to this episode you'll learn:

• Why singing is the "ultimate brain engager" that activates multiple brain regions at once

• How regular singing boosts dopamine, serotonin, and endorphins while regulating stress hormones

• Why our cultural focus on professional performers has disconnected us from music's therapeutic value

• Simple strategies to use music as a substitute for unhealthy dopamine-seeking behaviors

• How to create mood-specific playlists that can guide your emotional state

Join us as we explore the science behind music's profound effects on our brains and how anyone can harness this natural tool for improved emotional wellbeing.

Brady Dowling: Welcome to this episode of The Adaptive Mind. And today we have Andy Tubman. Andy is a board certified music therapist, a public speaker, and expert in music and the brain. He's also the co-founder and chief clinical officer at SingFit, where he leads the creation of therapeutic singing programs for seniors. Andy, welcome to the show.

Andy Tubman: Cheers, thanks so much.

Brady: So to start, could you begin by explaining what therapeutic music actually is and how it differs from just listening to music for enjoyment?

Andy: I'll go a little bit deeper. There's music therapy, which is clinical, right? Based in diagnosis, and an actual music therapist being there. There's therapeutic music, which is what Singfit is doing. And a lot of folks in technology world are trying to get into, which is utilizing music in some, would say, quantifiable way and probably powered through tech.

And then there's people self-medicating or simply listening to music the way they think is best, what makes them feel best, which has happened for millennia. So I would say there's three main categories.

Brady: Got it. And so how does engaging with music and especially singing, how does that affect our brains and how does that contribute to our emotional wellbeing?

Andy: So very, very high level, that the singing process is kind of like your ultimate brain engager. Because what's happening is as soon as you're singing, whether there's music surrounding you or not, there's time that is being divided. Because that's how your brain works in terms of music, so a song.

your brain starts dividing things in time. Then you start engaging language center with lyrics, motor centers with motor planting and lips and muscular, muscular, right? Timing motor planning, subcortical, topical, short-term, long-term. The whole brain is being integrated and activated to produce, you know, like the simplest song or the most complex song. And so,

To me, it's really about being intentful about why you're singing. And sometimes it's just to have fun and boost those neurochemicals because that's the other thing that singing has been proven to show, that it boosts endorphins, serotonin, dopamine, regulates cortisol or stress. So between those positive neurochemical regulations and releases,

and brain activation, you have kind of like a one-two punch on like with singing to, you know, support mood and support interactivity and support brain health. Like it does a lot.

Brady: And so building off of that, what is it about music and particularly singing that makes it such an effective and such a powerful tool for expressing or oftentimes releasing our emotions?

Andy: Well, I would say pretty much unless you are not to be dark, but like literally on your deathbed and don't have the ability to make any vocal sounds, which is a very finite number in our population on the earth, everybody else can do it. Everybody can vocalize. Everybody has grown up.

regardless of culture, has grown up with songs that are integrated literally into their neuro network, into their cellular map. And so to vocalize these, you know, it is just, it can be a very positive, like I said, neurologically, in terms of brain integration, in terms of mood, in terms of respiratory and central nervous system affect, it's all

It's all pretty positive, you know, especially if you're doing it on a regular basis, like you would take vitamins or exercise on a regular basis.

Brady: Right, I mean that totally makes sense. I think, so I have small kids and I feel like two of the things that are encouraged for rearing kids is like you read every day and then I feel like you also sing hand in hand, like you sing to your kids because that's just what you do that like helps them in so many ways that we don't even think about.

Andy: Exactly. like, why, why have lullabies, you know, been sung since the beginning of time, both while child is in utero and out, right? Regardless of, know, if someone 2000 years ago understood the science, what is actually happening is, is you are building neuro language and timing and all these different things that listening and perceptive is stimulating.

Right? You're building a better scaffolding for the child, right? A better neuro scaffolding by utilizing music in a joyful, loving, supportive way, right? So the side effects are basically no side effects, you know? So it's a very positive interaction like you're pointing out.

Brady: Yeah, and from what you said earlier, sounds like listening to music has a lot of these benefits, but then also even being the one that's singing, there are a lot of additional processes that are happening that are even adding to the experience.

Andy: Yeah, man. Yeah, you're on it. So the thing is, listening is a very interesting thing because there are many, many companies and apps and massive tech companies. All these people are

They're trying to sell product. And because people listen to, can't remember how many hours on average of music a day. They're like, they're already doing this. we can just put a, you know, here's, is how you listen to so you are calm. And this is how you listen to optimize your, you know, your biking experience. And this is how you listen. But the thing is, is that

Listening has a lot of different functions and use and some is not so effective and some would be more effective and it's depending on the goal. again, just like I was saying about singing, it's not that you have to overanalyze what your goal is and be a clinician, but understanding your intent.

while you're listening and while you're singing and doing music is often a good thing just to kind of be generally aware. I think that the listening process can be very powerful, but it can also be background and confusing to someone on the autistic spectrum. And so it's specific to scenarios and why you're doing what you're doing.

Brady: Yeah, so talking about why you're doing what you're doing, that actually, that makes me think of, I don't lift weights very much, but just really like the mind-body connection. And it seems like that's kind of what you're talking about here is having that intention and really awareness of what you're doing in that moment.

Andy: Yeah, yeah, you got it. And think about there's a research project that's a really good example of this. And this is more on the clinical side, but it also translates to the non-clinical is that people with Parkinson's who have neurodegenerative, who have challenges with walking, right? They're shaking, their musculature is challenged, their central nervous system is challenged.

So they have challenges with walking. And what this research showed was that they started people walking to favorite music, their preferred music that is in a tempo to what their means, their walking, general walking tempo would be. And so they learned to start singing these songs while they're walking. And what they found

was that it helped their gait, how they walked and how fluidly they walked and how fast they walked, right? And then they trained them to sing the songs in their head without the music and it transferred, right? So this processing, you know, it really is a very interesting how deep the neuro conditioning is with music and how deep it

Brady: Yeah, very interesting. So let's change gears just a little bit. No, that's great. It's fascinating. I could keep talking about it, but thinking about someone that wants to break a habit or change their behavior in some way, let's say cutting back on social media or quitting drinking. Can you use music or singing to promote neuroplasticity in order to

Andy: Yeah, sorry if I'm too clinical here, but yeah.

Brady: kind of achieve that effect.

Andy: Yeah, so

When it comes to different kinds of addictions and you know, addiction in terms of drinking or whether it's just drinking too much and there's not like a visual, an actual, you know, problem or the social media. This is all to me a matter of, of degree, right? On how, how it's, how much you're doing, how much it's affecting your life and everything. But in the end,

you're getting oxytocin and dopamine hits from doing these things. And with drinking, you're getting different kinds of pleasure centers being stimulated. So when it comes to singing, like I said, when you start integrating the whole brain and increasing your dopamine and serotonin and regulating this cortisol,

I'm not saying it's like a hit of cocaine, right? Or a given Prozac pill, because these things are very specific and very effective. However, when you're using singing, and I like to say active music making, when you're making the music, which is what singing is, you really are activating and getting these dopamines and all these neurochemicals flowing.

And to me, if you can kind of latch on to a regular, you know, routine of that, that can substitute for all this, these different kinds of hits and pleasure centers being stimulated by what might be not so positive scenarios, right? So this is a very natural, the singing process and then active music making, and even the listening in the right scenarios is a natural way.

to stimulate all of these pleasure centers and substitute for what people are looking for.

Brady: I see. it sounds like there's almost a twofold benefit where one is you have just kind of these this pleasurable experience where you're listening to music and you're, you know, singing along with it maybe. And then the second or maybe the second part of it is that as you're doing that time over time, it almost becomes it can become the replacement behavior where you know that you're getting this pleasure or you have this positive experience.

And so perhaps you can just continue on with this constructive behavior instead of the destructive behavior, however you've deemed that to be.

Andy: Yeah. And I think exactly. Well said. And I think it's like, know, that there's it's not the exact right analogy, but I think that runners after a while, they get to a certain level of conditioning and they start experiencing a runner's high, right? They start getting on the adrenaline and it just starts and then they need to do it all the time. The runners.

They're nuts, right? They go up the mountains and like going crazy.

To get into a daily yoga practice, if you will, of making music and singing, over time, what people find is, especially when it comes to the singing and you're increasing that oxygen flow, you really, you really feel different after 20 minutes of singing or 30 minutes of singing. Drumming is not too far behind.

you're drumming in a group or by yourself and you really are in time and you're grooving, you're coordinating musc- muscles and different body parts and everything, when you're done, like your body's buzzing, right? So that buzz, that word, it is analogous to a buzz from alcohol, not, I don't think by mistake, like it is, the both are literally happening, you know, in certain ways.

Brady: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't consider myself a singer, but I enjoy singing by myself. And I don't think I really have sung for 20 consecutive minutes before. that's something that I'll have to try to try and experience what that feels like.

Andy: Yeah, think that, you know, that pop, like it's not that pop music hasn't been there since the beginning of time, right? Like there's been the, the, the castrato in Rome, the beautiful opera singer, the like, you know, it's not that the brilliant artist hasn't been there to entertain us since the beginning of time. But I think over the last hundred years, the

the marketing around pop music has done our society a disservice in that you who enjoy singing 100 years ago would probably be leading the band on your front porch with your family, right? Or doing a regular church thing or going like doing the communal, you know,

banjo, whatever the hell it was. And because Whitney Houston is so unbelievably brilliant at vocals and now there's all these hateful vocal shows and all these different things, that our perception is that, I can't do that. Right? Like, they're so good and I'm not good. And in terms of actually being a clinical music therapist, I I fight that all the time because it's not the

point. The point is, as Yoda would say, to do, not to try. Right? Like you don't need to try to be Whitney Houston. Nobody is Whitney Houston. And I mean that all the rest of the singers who are pop stars that try to be. But you know what mean? It's the doing that really is the benefit. You know, it's true.

Brady: Yeah, no, that's a really interesting perspective. I think it's very valuable for me and probably a lot of people. think we have this perspective about I'm a big basketball fan, so we see like LeBron James and we're like, I could not. I couldn't do that. I would have to put in too much time to do that for me. I don't care because I like playing basketball. I've played it enough that I don't care if I'm as good as him. But yeah, that kind of attitude like

falls over and pervades over into other things. When it comes to running, I'm also not a runner, but sometimes I'll just go out for a run and I don't care that I'm not at a marathon pace. But like you said, when it comes to singing, I'm worried that someone's gonna say I'm out of tune or that I sound bad. And so I only sing in front of my kids and my wife, really, maybe at church, but only because I'm being drowned out by other people.

Andy: Yes. Well, there's reasons for that too. Like that singing to some people, it can be emotionally exposing. Right? Which is honestly why it can be so effective in a therapeutic setting or as a self-help tool. Right? Because even if you're not

doing this with anybody else and it's just a very personal intimate relationship with music and you're singing for yourself or for your kids, right, who do not care what your voice sounds like. They just want your voice, right? You know, this is a very, it's a very positive tool, I guess, in the end is what I'm saying.

Brady: Yeah, so to build off of that,

what kind of benefits of singing and music could people expect or even have you seen that have benefited people in overcoming certain behaviors?

Andy: Well, I mean...

I guess the main thing is the substitution of these neurochemicals and this level of organization neurologically and cognitively that music brings to the table. If someone's singing, they're very organized. So they're not feeling anxious, right? It also helps that the cortisol is getting regulated. But this literally, right? I found my thrill.

you're literally being regulated in time. So you're getting organized. And so this idea of organization and these different areas of the brain, it's again, a beautiful substitute for these different substances that someone would be addicted to, right? To help kind of satiate the need for all of

And that would be with when someone when you're talking about addiction to really look in addition to getting having these musical tools to really take a very deep look at where these addictions are coming from is That you know a good amount physiological neurological Or are they there because you're substituting you're trying to cover up other things I mean, this is the rehab process is a long

process, but the musical tool can be very beneficial from the beginning through, you know, a clean lifestyle.

Brady: Yeah, and that actually, I mean, that makes a lot of sense to me. And I know that when I'm procrastinating something or if I'm if I'm just stuck on YouTube or a lot of times my thoughts feel nonlinear, they feel like all over the place. And so the way that you describe that of like going through this time, time bound and like very almost linear process.

seems like a natural antidote to that kind of like scatterbrained feeling and that scatterbrained process.

Andy: Exactly.

Exactly. So like to use that to help with focus, to use that to distract yourself. The thing is, is that, you know, it could easily be perceived that, I'm getting controlled or this, like, I like to be free and blah. But the thing is, is this, this kind of idea.

is like, it doesn't matter what artists, like if you're singing along with Katy Perry, right? The level of organization that occurs, you don't care if you're being controlled and you're willing to be organized. You know what I mean? Because it feels good because it's music. it's a soft in, it's like a soft, like a therapeutic in that goes very deep.

but they can just be like, I love Katy Perry, boom. And it's simple and sweet.

Brady: Yeah, it makes me actually think of meditation, guided meditations where you have to buy into this. Not necessarily buy in, but you have to be suggestible to an extent. You have to be there for it. And it sounds very similar to what you're describing where, yeah, I might be singing words to a song. I didn't write it, but I'm here for it. I'm buying into this process.

Andy: Yeah, and I like to think that that

When it comes to doing something healthy for oneself, often to get off the couch, to stop looking at social media, to just do the actual function of changing a process, the path of least resistance is often the way to go.

I don't know why I'm talking about Katy Perry, but whoever it is, an Aerosmith or, you know, whatever, country artists, whoever you might be okay with that it takes to push play, right? The path of least resistance, like if you're just like, that's couch. But if you're like, I could hear that song, okay, whatever, tunk. Now you're starting to move away.

And so maybe that song leads to you putting headphones on and getting out and walking to that song. Right. So what is that path of least resistance? And music is often a very easy, especially the listening part, right, which is why people are trying to market it so hard, right? With tech and everything. But but it is very easy to to engage in. So it's good in that sense.

Brady: Yeah, so going off of that resistance to continue on that, what are some challenges that you see or that you've seen with people adopting or starting to do some kind of therapeutic music or song therapy?

Andy: Yeah.

Well...

Some of the biggest resistance come from when folks are having these addictive challenges and they come to the table with things like, my parents said I wasn't good at piano or my teacher didn't like my voice. And I'm just like, how could they do that? Right? Like, like the funny thing is, that

one's musical expression is pretty vulnerable, right? And especially as a young person. And so I've seen a lot of scenarios where kids are not supported and then they grow up and unfortunately they, whatever life brings them and they have these different challenges. And then there's yet another layer to unfold before they can really

kind of dive into the musical process. I think which musical process, you know, for someone to dive in to make that transition is really important. Something that's gonna lead to something sustainable or something that is sustainable right off the bat. You know, learning instruments or playing songs like which process to dive into that is the path of least resistance or the beginning of the path.

you know, that's maybe where some music therapy consult could help. But intelligent people can utilize it on their own, you know.

Brady: Yeah, so that's a perfect segue. So for someone that's like, this Andy guy knows exactly what he's talking about, I'm all in, I wanna do this. If they have five minutes right now, how would you say for somebody to get started?

Andy: you

dance and sing. It's pretty simple, right?

If you're feeling down, like figure out a couple songs that you like to move to and that you or that you like to sing to and get moving. Like it's about energy, right? And, the music is, is a beautiful vehicle to create that flow of energy. And to me that, you know, that's, that's a pretty simple path of, you know, of engaging in a positive experience.

Unfortunately, you know, again, like the dancing process is like, Oh, me and the girls are going to go out and we're partying or dancing tonight. And it's associated with just, you know, being buzzed and, and partying and whatever that is for you and the dancing. But I guarantee that if you put on four.

five songs in your living room and you push play and you get your kids up with you and you're all dancing for 20 minutes, your perception and your lens of the world is going to be different.

Brady: So you said it's very simple and that's true. And you also said having a couple of songs that you basically can go to. So having a little bit of preparation, it sounds like, but then just go for it and just do it.

Andy: Yeah. And so that's easy to say sometimes, especially if someone's in a challenging state. And so what I would suggest, and like I said, dancing is great because it's a full body experience. Singing is also possibly more neurologically focused, right? And about the regulation of the cortisol and things. But both are beautiful. And my last thought on it is simply that

If be conscious of how you're starting, because first impressions, first feelings are often the most important. If you're the type of person who's down and when they're down, they only like fun up tempo music, make sure those songs you're singing or that playlist you're singing.

are up tempo and fun and not negative. There's a very large majority of people that when they're down and they hear that up tempo and positive stuff, they're like, right? Like I can't deal with that crap. It's bubblegum, you know, junk. So know yourself, understand your intent is in this scenario, we're talking about possibly changing your mood a bit.

after three to five songs and try to match your energetically where you are. You might have a couple of different playlists to go to, right? One starting high, one starting in the middle and one starting low and have those songs move away from that energetic state. So a playlist of singing and playlists of dancing and moving that you're kind of already sorted with can be positive.

Wait.

Brady: Great, that's really insightful. So moving to the last thought here, is there any body of research or anything that you think is particularly interesting and maybe like the future of therapeutic music or things that we should be exploring more?

Andy: I think where things are going and what is interesting is how to integrate music, singing, movement with a variety of biometrics, right, and data. And I say this not

without knowing the level of responsibility that the creators of these programs need to have, I think, if I may get on the soapbox, and not just create product to sell that, right? To create product to understand what the deeper clinical implications are and...

you know, why they're doing what they're doing. And when they get different kinds of biometrics from different sources on people, that that data is considered in a very ethical way and is not sold, is not used for a negative process. So I'll just get off my soapbox there. But as long as that is occurring,

Like the potential for collecting accelerometers, like how much movement your hand is making, heart rate variation, heart rate in general, blood oxygenation. These kinds of biometrics can be integrated into different kinds of musical programming so that, and which is what we do at Singfit, right, in general.

So that when you are looking to change your mood, the app does that pre-work for you and tracks how it's affecting you. Right. Yeah. So ethically, but good. But ethically, but like, how do you use it, you know, effectively, I think is, is it's where things are going.

Brady: Yeah, really interesting.

Yeah, great. Well, thank you so much for all of your really good insights. think there are like a lot of people that can take a lot of things out of this. But also, as you mentioned, know, things are everything is very individual. so, yeah, certain people, I'm sure, can benefit even more. And they'll really hone in on certain certain parts of what we've talked about. So thank you again for joining. I really appreciate it, Andy.

Andy: How's that?

Yeah, and I'm accessible within singfit.com. if folks need interactions or guidance or suggestions or research, happy to interact and give some feedback. And I want to thank you, Brady, for having me on. It's really nice conversation.

Brady: Yeah, absolutely. I'll make sure

to include your contact info and links in the show notes. All right, thanks, Andy.

Andy: Awesome, All right, buddy, thanks so much.

Episode Links

• Website: SingFit.com

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WeAreSingFit

• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/wearesingfit/

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/musical-health-technologies/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/iSingFit

• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wearesingfit

• X: https://x.com/WeAreSingFit

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